Jonathan Steedman (00:01.442)

Hey food groupies, welcome back. Very excited to, as always, to have Jenna back on the podcast. A regular, was this like number six, five? I don't know.

 

Jenna (00:12.994)

I think so, I'm making like a regular appearance now.

 

Jonathan Steedman (00:16.494)

Yeah, we should just set up, it should be. Anyway, it's all right, my people will talk to your people. We'll figure something out. But yeah, it's a very important and helpful topic to go through today. It's something we've touched on in other podcasts before, so we're gonna be talking about neurodivergence, mental health, and the impact on nutrition. But specifically today, we're talking about weight loss in the context of juggling that with neurodivergence and.

 

Jenna (00:21.314)

Come, come.

 

Jonathan Steedman (00:44.226)

mental health conditions and or mental health conditions. So there's no better person to talk to, I feel than you about this, hence why we're doing it. So I mean, why does this need its own podcast?

 

Jenna (00:52.354)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Jenna (00:57.814)

Yeah, I think we, like you said, we've spent a lot of time talking individually about like, you know, like neurodivergence, the ADHD, the autism, all of those kind of like spectrum disorders and the mental health and how they impact our food choices and the importance of creating structure and making sure we're still eating enough and we're doing all of those things. But then now when we add in the complexity of weight loss, so the reason why we're talking about this today is because, you know, we get

 

a ton of clients that that want to do weight loss and it's a okay to have weight loss goals as there's no need to I guess, you know, feel like you have to justify that. But it's understanding how now those conditions can impact or your ability to lose weight and how it may not look the same for someone that has a quote unquote, normal

 

life, I was gonna say brain. But you know, that kind of like normal functioning how this will now potentially make things a bit trickier for you. So it's a very important conversation to have that expectation before we jump into our favorite weight loss journey as well.

 

Jonathan Steedman (02:12.843)

Yeah, cool. Well, let's make sure that we do that today. stuck up on, so I guess, like what are the, I mean, weight loss, I think you mentioned before, like weight loss can be tricky for everyone, right? What extra layers of complexity are we coming up against when we're also, yeah, we've got like the neurodivergence and all the mental health.

 

Jenna (02:16.384)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jenna (02:25.217)

Yeah.

 

Jenna (02:34.198)

Hmm. Hmm. So yeah, it's important to recognize that like weight loss, you know, the calories in the calories out, it's a pretty simple thing for us to put down on paper, but it's not definitely not easy. And so we've got to think about the things that each of those groups kind of experience differently and what we, guess we can separate this out into, you know, those challenges that we face in neurodivergence.

 

And so we can run through a couple of those. So the biggest things, like we talked about in that ADHD podcast. So if you haven't listened to that one, go and listen to that one first and then come back. But the biggest things like obviously that number one that we find with ADHD and in some autism spectrum disorders is that executive functioning and that ability to sort of plan and cook meals that going through those steps.

 

I'm sure like you work with a lot of, you know, your weight loss groupies and your busy health, you're not busy health professionals, you're busy professionals, people with kids. You know, a lot of people struggle with this stuff as well, not only just if you've got, you know, neurodivergence as well. But then if we add that extra layer, that extra roadblock that we find with ADHD, with planning things, what's going to happen is if

 

you don't plan your meals or if you don't know what you're going to be having, you're more likely to push that hunger into that kind of like level 10 hunger zone, where now we're just going to be going for the easiest option. And the easiest option is not always the most calorie friendly option. So if we don't know what we're going to eat, it's going to lead us to eat a higher calorie meal. Not always I'm talking very generally, but this is usually what we see.

 

and that's going to make it harder for us to manage, I guess, a calorie budget as well. So that's one part of it. The other part of it is there's those food aversions and those safe foods now. So we're kind of flip-flopping between foods that we feel really comfortable eating. Most often are not there either higher calorie meals, or they're going to be incomplete meals. you know, things like, well, some of my clients' favorite ones, you know,

 

Jenna (04:57.1)

Hot chips is a really good one. It's nice and bland. It doesn't change too much. It tastes delicious, but it's not an adequate meal. And so on one side, can be, we're gonna eat more of it and it's gonna be higher calories. The other flip side of it is not gonna fill us up. So then we're gonna wanna eat more later. And then on the other side, those food aversions where we're starting to, you know, not know what our next meal is going to be.

 

which then kind of falls us back into that inability to plan and waiting till we're absolutely starving and then that's kind of like, no moments and just sort of eating anything we can find. So they're probably like some of the bigger ones when we're talking about, especially like in neurodivergence, but then also we come in the, know, the dopamine seeking and the reward seeking, our dopamine foods tend to be high calorie foods.

 

so that in itself can make a calorie deficit hard to manage, but also that like the really big, strong reward seeking that we find like weight loss takes a long time. It's not going to be something that happens every single day. Like you shouldn't be weighing yourself every single day. and so you're not going to see that instant gratification of like, I ate in a calorie deficit today and now I've seen the weight loss and, and that can get a little bit.

 

know, tricky for people that are looking for that instant reward. And so you give up, which is reasonable, like, you know, if you're not seeing the returns from what you're putting in, you're going to give up. So all of those things are really big challenges that we can face when we now start to add in the complexity of a calorie budget and a calorie deficit and can make things so much harder to stick to that budget.

 

Jonathan Steedman (06:26.185)

Hmm.

 

Jonathan Steedman (06:45.067)

Yeah, jeez. Like I said, it's difficult to begin with. And then we've got all of these extra layers.

 

Jenna (06:55.106)

Absolutely. the kind of just going back to why this is again, an important conversation that we need to have is that, you know, the norm at the moment, at the moment, and I don't want to like, well, no, I'm going to throw social media under the bus. I'm not going to go into any more nuances than just social media. But we see these rapid weight loss like stories and these journeys that people are on. And it's like, look, I lost 10 kilos in, you know, five weeks. And people start to think that that is

 

normal, and that's the rate of weight loss that they should be seeing and they should be expecting. And so when people that do or are faced with these things that make weight loss challenging, and they don't see that weight loss happen so quickly, it starts to put that negative impact back on them and then you know, well, I'm not good enough, I'm not doing a good enough job, you know, why can't I do these things? And it's like, well, no, that's one, not the normal. And two,

 

we need to make sure that this is a plan that works for you and what your life and your brain looks like. So yeah, like just going through some of those challenges, you can kind of already see like, this is a lot that we have to kind of consider when we add in weight loss.

 

Jonathan Steedman (08:11.947)

Yeah, yeah. with those chat, like I know those challenges were probably more for the neurodivergent people amongst us. Are they similar or are there different kind of barriers, I guess, for weight loss when it's more of a mental health condition?

 

Jenna (08:31.532)

Hmm. Yeah. So we, well, you're definitely going to see overlaps in everything. and you listening potentially could fall into both categories of maybe having some neurodivergence and, or a mental health condition at the same time. So it isn't black and white. Like you can definitely, you know, be from different areas, but yes, there are some other things that if we're struggling with mental health conditions, now this can range from anything from, you know,

 

your anxiety, your depression to your more sort of complex, you know, schizophrenia, those kind of higher level mental health conditions. The biggest thing, number one, that executive function always kind of comes back into this, but now it can come from a different kind of, or very similar, but it's more so that boat of like, we can't be bothered. It's too overwhelming. It's too hard. It's too pointless. Those feelings of dread. So it's like, what's the point in

 

cooking a meal or I just really, can't even be bothered to get out of bed. Like if I cook a meal, I'm going to have to do dishes. I can't even be bothered to get up. Like, you know, that executive functioning starts to creep in sometimes with those, yeah, the stronger mental health sort of side of things. The changes in appetite are a huge part of some of our mental health conditions. So,

 

And there's ebbs and flows in this. Some people are going to experience a loss of appetite. Some people are going to experience an elevated appetite. And some people will definitely cycle between. It's not uncommon where we start to see, especially when, you know, I have conversations with people about losing your appetite with these mental health conditions and they're like, I tend to overeat. And I was like, I bet it kind of followed a period of under reading because these things tend to cycle.

 

And so you can already see like, okay, well, if we're caught in this cycle of, of under eating and then overeating, again, that's going to make it really hard to manage that calorie deficit. So we need to make sure that we've got plans in place for when you're experiencing those times. There's also that reduced physical activity. If you can't even be bothered.

 

Jenna (10:44.95)

And I say being bothered in the nicest possible way. I'm not calling you lazy in any particular, in any aspect. when, when it's that feeling of like, I just really can't even get out of bed. How are you going to go then do physical activity and not even just going in, like going to the gym or playing sports and doing things like that. It's like, I can't even get outside and go for a walk. Like it has a huge impact on that. And again, you know,

 

Jonathan Steedman (10:49.789)

you

 

Jenna (11:10.562)

calories in, calories out, we can lose weight without doing physical activity, but weight loss is so much nicer when we have physical activity in there, because we can eat more and still lose weight. So there's also that challenge. And then I guess a similar challenge that we can face, which we haven't really talked too much, especially around ADHD and the medications that are commonly prescribed for ADHD do tend to lower your appetite and...

 

Jonathan Steedman (11:20.904)

sure.

 

Jenna (11:38.796)

There's a whole other kettle of fish when we're talking about weight loss. But when we look at things like your SSRIs, your other antidepressants, even your antipsychotics, those medications have a really big impact on your metabolism and changes in your appetite. The most common one that we find with pretty much most of them across the board is that increase in appetite, which is why when we start taking

 

medications for our mental health, there is that increased risk of gaining weight. So again, we throw that into the mix. It makes a whole other layer for how weight loss can now just be even harder to kind of manage.

 

Jonathan Steedman (12:28.348)

I'm feeling pretty hopeless at the moment. But never fear, Jenna is here. Right? Oh wait, no, do we need a bit more doom and gloom first? No, okay.

 

Jenna (12:30.719)

You

 

Jenna (12:34.914)

And

 

Guess.

 

Jenna (12:42.498)

No, no more doom and gloom. That's enough doom and gloom. I hope that like, I hope you're still, I hope you're still with me and you're not feeling completely like just, well, what's the point? Because that does, it does sound so incredibly doom and gloom. And it was not my, maybe it was my point to do it, but no.

 

Jonathan Steedman (12:45.767)

All right.

 

Jonathan Steedman (13:00.826)

I think it's helpful to be realistic and set realistic expectations. again, like you mentioned, the people that are watching some person lose 10 kilos in five weeks with, and they maybe don't have the same mental health or neurodivergent lifestyle. so it's nice to hear, think, maybe give them that like, hey, your experience might be different and there's nothing wrong with you. That's just how it is. And that's okay.

 

Jenna (13:16.844)

Mmm.

 

Jenna (13:23.872)

You are different.

 

Jenna (13:28.706)

Yeah. I think the biggest thing is like giving people autonomy. the whole, the reason why I want to outline, you know, these are things that are going to make it harder is to give you that autonomy over these things. Like, okay, we, we can expect that, you know, meal planning for you is going to be harder. So we can make this easier. Um, but like I said, our expectations need to change. So it's not all doom and gloom. I'm promising you. I've got plenty of clients with ADHD with like

 

Autism, mental health issues, all of it in between that are still managed to lose weight. But we need to make sure that your plan fits you. And like I said, we adjust your expectations on well, how quickly is this going to happen? So again, we kind of talked in those other podcasts when we were talking mainly about like the ADHD and the mental health about some of those strategies. But now when we add in that layer of weight loss, we need to

 

kind of tweak it some of it a little bit just to make it calorie friendly, essentially in the simplest ways. So if we break it down again, like there is going to be overlap between the strategies that we use for ADHD and mental health. And I definitely do the same strategies and I call them a different thing. So if you're of my clients and you hear it, that's what I do.

 

But essentially with ADHD, so some of the really simple things that we do, those really simple assembly style meals, like get this microwave rice, get this protein, this bag of salad, you know, let's pop it in the microwave, let's make a really quick meal so that we're cutting down the steps that you need to take. It's no longer, you know, I need to boil water, measure my rice, cook my rice, portion my rice, like...

 

Jonathan Steedman (14:53.798)

You

 

Jenna (15:22.432)

That is just one part of a meal and that's already five steps for someone. So let's like cut the middleman out. Let's just go straight to our microwave rice. Let's make it super, super simple. So if we can do those things and we have a repertoire of those really simple meals, then that's going to make that planning phase a lot easier. We also want to make sure that we're incorporating like stuff that's fun because we know that people with ADHD are going to

 

want to dopamine seek, they want those meals that are gonna bring them joy. And I know, I always say to my clients, like not every meal needs to be, you the most delicious thing you've ever had. Some meals just need to get the job done. I think you say something very similar around like not every meal needs to be a party. But for people with ADHD, sometimes their meals do need to be a party and every meal.

 

Jonathan Steedman (16:17.283)

need to be a party.

 

Jenna (16:19.018)

near least to be a party. So we're going to have to lean into some of that a little bit where we can incorporate some of these things that still bring us fun and bring us joy that maybe are on that higher calorie spectrum, but incorporating them in a way that we kind of balance it with other things that are also going to fill you up and make sure you feel satisfied. Something else just again from that executive functioning kind of standpoint is making sure that we've got tons of visual reminders.

 

if we can get it out of your brain and like just in front of you, it's going to take one less thing your brain's having to think about. So big fan of like whiteboards on, on refrigerators, like lists of this is what is actually in your fridge because out of sight, out of mind is a really big thing. Once it's in the depths of the freezer, it's never coming back out again. So if we've got, this is what the menu is. These are your three really assembly style meals that you.

 

We know a calorie friendly, you know, we've, we've, we've portioned about, we've done all of that kind of stuff. Now you just need to pick from your menu. It helps to take that complexity out. So there's some of the big strategies that we would do with people with ADHD. And then one of my other favorite things to do is like some non weight related rewards, some things that we can do to give you that dopamine hit or that instant reward kind of feeling.

 

And I make this joke with all of my clients. Like I'm not that boring that I think that this is fun, but it also is a little bit fun, but using like almost like a sticker chart for yourself. Like you would your kids if they go and use the bathroom while you're trying to, I don't know. don't have kids while he's trying to get them to toilet train and all that kind of stuff. Like, cool. If we have a day where we stuck to our plan, we give ourselves some kind of visual reward, whether that is like, you know,

 

a sticker on the calendar or something like that. We gotta be careful that we don't fall into the category of marking things as good or bad. It is just that this was a day that I stuck to my plan and we wanna try and bank those days where we are kind of sticking to things and often enough once we get in a bit of a roll, we don't wanna break our streak. So we wanna try and lean into those things but obviously still recognizing that moments are gonna happen and that's why.

 

Jenna (18:46.454)

We need to make sure that this is like individualized and works with the person. But there are a couple of my favorite strategies with clients with ADHD just to help manage that calorie deficit a little bit easier. It's not going to be completely perfect, but there's those small 1 % things that we can do to help keep our calories kind of in check.

 

Jonathan Steedman (19:02.02)

you

 

Jonathan Steedman (19:11.492)

Yeah, well, and like you said, that might mean that the size of your deficit is a bit smaller. So therefore the rate of your weight loss is slower, but you may actually get to your goal this time. So yeah.

 

Jenna (19:22.871)

Mm.

 

Jenna (19:28.886)

That is the other thing that the conversations that I've had multiple times, especially with new clients that are coming with me with mental health ADHD, like they are caught in this weight loss cycle of like, yeah, cool. Maybe at some point, you know, they have lost quite a lot of weight quite quickly. And then, you know, they've, they've put it back on or something for some reason they've plateaued or whatever it is. And they can always feel like they're sort of two steps forward, one step back, because they're always trying to chase this fast.

 

ideal, normal, that's all quote unquote, you know, idea of weight loss. Whereas if we just did it slower, it would work out better for the long term, like, you know, those two months that you lost weight really rapidly, but then maybe put it back on. If we had just done two months of slow and sustained weight loss, you'd feel a lot more comfortable and a lot better about yourself. I'm sure that there would be significant less negative talk coming in.

 

Jonathan Steedman (20:28.663)

Yeah, yeah. You mentioned before that there's a lot of crossover between the strategies for say ADHD slash neurodivergence versus say mental health, they're struggling with mental health. What are some of the strategies you use in the context of mental health to help?

 

Jenna (20:38.722)

Mm.

 

Jenna (20:47.874)

Yeah. So the same kind of thing when we're talking about like those simple assembly style meals, when we're talking at it from the context of, you know, mental health, I will rebrand that as a low motivational meal, which is a okay. So it's again, these meals like when you're, when you don't have the, you know, the ability to be cooking these beautiful home cooked meals and everything from scratch. And, and if that's all just a little bit too overwhelming for you right now,

 

Cool, let's switch to a low motivation meal. Let's do baked beans on toast for dinner. there's, I think it's the best thing. That would be the best thing to be having for dinner in my opinion. I'd it for breakfast, and dinner. But yeah, like just shifting our expectations of like, okay, well right now I can't be doing that. So I'm gonna choose this low motivational meal. And again, you know, we can do things from portion control, making sure that they're still calorie friendly. So long as we're following, you know, our recipes and all of that kind of stuff.

 

We can still guarantee that you're going to be in a calorie deficit, but it's just, again, switching that expectation of like, okay, well, when things are going great, we're in plan A and when things aren't going great, we're in plan B, but they can still both be in a calorie budget. So that's probably the big one, you know, where we see that overlap between the ADHD and the mental health. The other things that I like to do with clients with mental health, because this is

 

You know, some days.

 

Jonathan Steedman (24:32.885)

Awesome. Man, there you go. I think that's the right, that's how you're supposed to do it anyway. You just set doom and gloom and then redemption at the end. I know we're saying, I joked about doom and gloom. It wasn't doom and gloom, it's just let's be realistic, let's be fair. I think that's the word I use a lot with clients. You're not being happy, clappy, positivity of like, it's fine, just do whatever you can. It's like, no, let's be fair about.

 

your lifestyle, the things you're struggling with, and how that impacts your goals.

 

Jonathan Steedman (25:30.337)

50-50.

 

Jonathan Steedman (26:32.958)

Yeah, the reality of the situation, I don't know. Anyway, look, think we did, we, I didn't do anything. You did a really good job of setting that scene, but then also giving people some actual practical actionable things to be like, okay, well, this is the reality of the situation, here's what we can do about it. so go back, listen to those, take some notes. And then as always, if it's something that you have struggled with, if you feel like you're beating your head against the wall with this sort of stuff,

 

having someone on your team, someone to help, someone to outline those strategies, someone to help walk you through them and scaffold them and all of those sorts of things. If you have struggled with mental health slash neurodivergency and weight loss in the past, I know that Jenna is phenomenal at helping people with that. Like you said, you already work with a bunch of people navigating that. And so if you need some extra help, reach out, either send me a message, but probably better to send Jenna a message because she will be the person. Yeah, just, yeah, actually don't send, take that back.

 

If you're struggling with this, don't message me. Message Jenna at jennasteinstein. It's Stein, isn't it? I think, yeah, okay, cool. Anyway, we'll put the thing in the show notes. I don't know why I second guessed that so quickly. Anyhow, send her a message on Instagram. You guys can have a chat. And yeah, I know that she'd be the perfect fit to help with this sort of stuff. But otherwise, go back, have a listen, take some notes. Thanks for coming on Jenna.

 

Jonathan Steedman (28:05.696)

Mm.

 

Jonathan Steedman (28:11.328)

Good. Yes.

 

Jonathan Steedman (28:40.959)

Love that. Well, I'm sure I will chat to you again in a couple of weeks time about for the next podcast. But until then, thank you again. Thank you as always. Yeah. And guys, if you've got questions or like I said, if you need some help, don't message me, message Jenna and we will chat to you next time. Thanks team. See ya.